(Short Voice Only) Moses Atauma V Pilip Hrgovic | #1672 Let Me Bore You To Sleep | 30th August 2026 | Jason Newland

Hello and welcome to Let Me Bore You To Sleep. My name is Jason Newland. Please only listen when you can safely close your eyes.

There's a little bit of background sound in the garden. And kids playing and women shouting and dogs barking and stuff. Hopefully you can't hear it too much.

But I'll let you know now so you can choose not to listen if you don't want to. But it's not to be fair, the microphone doesn't really pick up much. It's very, very, very faint.

Apart from like the screams and stuff. I mean, if there's anything like really loud, then I'll try and edit that out. But if you're listening with music, then you're probably not even going to hear it.

So today is Sunday, the 30th of August 2026. Hello, it's 5.35pm in the afternoon. I'm feeling quite tired.

I had a very lazy day. Very, very lazy. What's going on? Well, I've been trying to work on my website today.

I've got a fair bit done, but it's, for some reason, keeps not breaking, but just not, I don't know, just not working properly. But I can use the chat mode rather than the work mode. So I'm just kind of looking into the future, how I could still make it a free service, but maybe have an income, you know, earn a living from what I do online.

How can I earn a living? And so I'm just kind of from my free service and keep it free. Here we go. So yeah, that's kind of what I'm looking for.

So what's coming up? I like to share all this website building with you just because I know how exciting it is. Monthly supporters, one-off gifts, Amazon gifts, wishlist, YouTube income. What's that? Publish your recordings there and build towards advertising, membership revenue, podcast advertising, affiliate links, optional paid extras, sponsorship.

Ship. Okay, the numbers don't necessarily have to be enormous. For example, if you eventually had 500 regular listeners, which I already do, I think average five pound a month, that's 2500 a month, which is definitely a livable amount.

It's just, I mean, I've, you know, people that listen to me very generous with PayPal gifts, and some people have been open to doing like a monthly subscription thing. What's he doing? I got on this video, he's under the desk. I got on this large tree, but it's not one he can eat easily because the the chewy bits really chewy.

It's really hard on the outside. So it's literally lasted him two whole days. And he loves it.

He actually brought it to bed with him last night. And he's just, he's, it's too hard for him. I guess it's not really made for a little dog like him.

It's not too big as far as he can get his mouth around it. But it's quite long. It's quite funny seeing him.

Because he was going into the bedroom, I said, get your treat. So he picks a treat up after looking at me a few times. And then he picked it up and he ran into the bedroom.

And I could see that he was thinking how he was going to maneuver the jump onto the bed, holding this big treat this like half his length and size. If not more, actually, yeah, probably so. But he did it.

He seemed pleased. I mean, sometimes he's just happy to have it. He's happy just to have a treat just there with him without even eating it.

Without doing anything, he just, I think he likes to look at it. Don't you Vin? You're a good boy. I can't go into details, but yesterday we was in the park and there was he dragged me over to this person that was sitting in the rain.

Now, it wasn't raining hard. It was, you know, spitting. It was a little bit of rain.

I came out with just a shirt and a hat and obviously underpants. And so a little bit of rain, I was thinking, oh, I'm going to get wet. But I didn't.

But it was enough to kind of not sit in it, really. And he was sitting in it. And then he pulled me and it looked like he was staring at me.

Well, but it wasn't. He was just like looking in that direction. And then he just dragged me to him.

And like with all his force, he was trying to pull me to him. So I kind of went over. I didn't go up to him, I kind of went round, you know, and said, hello.

You all right? Hi. He said, yeah. So I like your hat because I was wearing a hat.

And obviously he wouldn't have said, like, I like your hat if I wasn't wearing a hat, would he? Because that would be very strange. In fact, that would be the strangest part of the story, really, I guess. And I said, I like your truncheon, which made no sense because he wasn't wearing a truncheon.

No, he didn't have a truncheon. Anyway, and I'm kind of going, I'm not close to him, going around, you know, Vinnie's pulling me. So I'm kind of trying to go around the other way.

And I said, are you, I kind of, Vinnie was, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Basically, what Vinnie did is he ran over. I said, is it OK if he says hello? He said, yeah.

And Vinnie jumped up onto, because there's like a bench, he jumped up onto the bench next to this bloke and started kissing him. Like making a fuss and licking his face. But he jumped onto the bench.

He does never do that. He doesn't do that ever. And I was like, oh, it's a bit, I said to the bloke, I think he's, he's a bit concerned about you.

He said, I said, are you OK sitting out here in the rain? And I'm not going to go into the conversation because it was personal and private. But he wasn't in a good space. And we had a chat and stuff.

And, you know, I was concerned, but I sort of sat down and had a chat for 20 minutes, maybe half an hour. I don't know how long it was for. And, you know, I kept checking he was OK.

And there was, it was like half seven or something, half six, half seven. So there's nowhere to go to have a coffee or, you know, there's no cafes around here or anything, which would have been handy. So I'd like to go for a coffee.

But Vinnie was giving him so much love. But really, genuine concern. He just didn't want to leave him.

He wanted to stay with him. And he just wanted to sit next to him and hug him. Vinnie was being like that towards this man.

Anyway, so I kind of I left in the end and said goodbye and make sure you're definitely going to be OK. He's sure. And we had a quite a fair, fairly deep conversation.

And he said, yeah. And he's been making that sound quite a lot recently. Vinnie, you OK, mate? It's almost like he's sneezing, but not sneezing.

It's weird. I've been doing that for the last couple of days. I think he's got something irritated his nostrils or something.

I don't know. He doesn't do it all the time. But just every now and then, it's like starts going like that.

Anyway, so I left the bloke. And, you know, I've been thinking about him since last night. I actually saw him drive past.

And this morning, about 10, 1030, I was I was on the path myself. He wasn't on the path. He was on the road and he was in a car.

And he waved to me and like he just looked. He looked in a better. It's hard to tell, but, you know, from he looked like he was in a better space.

And of course, you can't. He wasn't driving fast, but he wasn't. He wasn't stationary either, so I couldn't really get like a good look.

But I don't know. The energy seemed a bit different from what I can tell. So I just like trying to just explain how Vinnie, how emotionally.

Observant he is. And how lovely he is compared to how he is when he's at home with me. Almost like he doesn't even care about me.

But maybe that's not true. But he's so loving towards people. And it's almost like he knew, like Vinnie knew that that man needed a bit of kindness.

So he went and gave it to him. So, yeah, it's a bit of an experience. Other than that, I suppose the big thing of the weekend.

So far has been the Moses Atalma fight with Filip Hergovich. You could say, as they like to say, it's a game of two halves. And and it really was.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone. I mean, it does happen sometimes, but to be winning so decisively. And if you haven't seen or don't know the results of the Moses Atalma fight, then I guess you need to turn off because it's yeah, I'm going to talk about it.

Sorry, but I am and I don't think I've ever seen a heavyweight as quick in that fight because that's the best I've ever seen him. And even though he lost in was a ninth round, I've never seen a heavyweight fighter. I don't think with that speed continuously that speed where he could punch without the other person, even though it was coming.

Now, something that I was concerned about that I've noticed in these past fights is he tends to get gassed out. He looks physically exhausted sometimes even after the first round. And he did with his last fight with Jermaine Franklin.

He looked because he put so much effort into the first round and he looked a bit knackered. But he kept going and he sort of paced himself a bit more and eventually got the knockout. And it's almost like he hasn't.

I'm not saying not prepared. He's never gone the distance. And quite a few boxes of various divisions, you know, weight classes.

Have become like really well known for being knockout artists. And then when they go to the world level, they they don't they can't go the distance. They might come back and win a world title again another time.

But they struggle with the because some boxes are just built for 12 rounds. Used to be 15 rounds in the 80s. For 12 rounds.

It's almost like, you know, some boxers literally won't. They have to warm up for the first three or four rounds. And then they'll take it and then they'll become stronger as they go along.

Seem to become better as the rounds go by. Most of the time is the opposite to that. And I guess most knockout artists who have a resume where most, you know, nearly all of their well, maybe all of the.

Opponents up to this date have been knocked out within three or four rounds. The question mark was for me, the question mark wasn't his chin. I mean, he proved he's got a good chin because he took some big punches.

And I don't believe the punch, although it was a knockout. It was stopped by the referee and he was on the ground. He was exhausted.

But the only time in my memory of a boxer being completely exhausted was Baron McGrigan against. Oh, I used to know his name is such a long time ago. But Baron McGrigan defended his world title.

But he did it in. I think it might be in Spain or Mexico or somewhere where the heat was ridiculous. It was like thirty five, thirty eight, 40 degrees or something like that over 100 degrees and.

He was absolutely exhausted and he never recovered from that, I don't think. Never, and he was a world champion and he was like a hero. And in this country, in well, in this part of the world, he was a hero and he was phenomenal.

And he, Steve Cruz, I think the bloke is, but I'm not looking on the Internet, by the way, I'm using memory, Steve Cruz and. I wonder if that's right. Sure, a little look, Steve Cruz, Steve.

I know it was 19, I think it was 1986. It might be in 87. Steve Cruz, retired American boxer.

I was an American boxer. OK, there's a picture of him beating McGrigan. I think he lost his first defense.

I might be wrong, though. In fact, he's already lost one. He lost one fight by KO and then he won the WBA and ring featherweight.

Titles 1986, so six, twenty third of. The six. I wish, I wish we could just have the same dates.

The same date order as, you know, like the month like. Do you know? Like today is the 30th of the 8th, 2006. It's not the 8th.

It's not 830 2006. There's not 30 months in the in the. In the year, it's only 12.

You know, it gets very confusing when it's the same date in the same month, but which is which? Actually, it's not confusing because it's easy. That's the wrong one. He lost.

He defended his title once and then he lost it in his second fight by knockout. And he did fight again for the IBF featherweight title, but he lost that. And he did fight again for the WBC featherweight title, which is weird because he actually got knocked out in his previous fight.

So I don't know how he managed to fight for a world title again. Maybe he was a late, a late person or maybe the fact that he beat. So, Baron McGregor, it's a 15 round fight, went the distance.

He was absolutely exhausted. And so. Right.

So McGregor held, right. McGregor made his first defense against Bernard, Bernard, Bernard Taylor. And Danilo Cabrera, so.

He fought. His next defense was Las Vegas. Wow.

So I didn't realize it was in America, but it was Las Vegas. I just remembered the heat. So when I think of like really, really big heat, I was I was thinking maybe more like Latin countries, because.

I don't know why I remember it being more, but it was in. Las Vegas, so it's in the desert. Come on, man.

It's in the desert. And it was 110 degree heat in the ring. I don't know what that is in 30s and 40s, but it was.

I mean, it's ridiculously hot to just even just to be sitting. Imagine fighting 15 rounds. And being a featherweight, it's a it's a big pace as well.

They don't go slow. It's like nonstop 15 rounds. So he went the distance.

Apparently he's saying he held the lead halfway through, but suffered dehydration and wilted near the end. He got knocked down in rounds 10 and 15. So he did go to the end without being losing on by knockout.

But he required hospitalization because of the dehydrated state. So I remember that it's a long time ago. 40 years ago.

It's ridiculous, but I remember it. So I watched it at my step grandmother's flat. That's when I was living on her living room floor on a little camper bed.

And I worked at the chip shop. And the three fights that I remember. In that year, 1986, there might be more, but the three main fights that I remember, two of them were.

Well, one was one of the biggest upsets at the time. And it was Lloyd Hunnigan beating Don Curry or beating up Donald Curry, who was, I think, at the time, pound for pound great. So our Lloyd Hunnigan, Britain's Lloyd Hunnigan, went out there and beat him up, basically, and became a star.

So he went to America and did that. So I remember watching that. Mike Tyson won the World Heavyweight title against Trevor Burbick.

And what's his name? McGuigan lost his title. Those were the three main fights that I remember in 1986. And one of them was really, that was really sad.

McGuigan, because I said, I grew up. I mean, he hadn't been a world title champion for a long time before he. Lost, but he was already in the early 80s.

When did he win the world title? 85. So I think we watched it at home. We watched it probably on a Saturday night on BBC One or ITV or something.

It was at Loftus Road Stadium, London. OK, so we at home, we watched that fight because he was. He was one of those.

He was a celebrity as well as being a boxer and a champion. He was a celebrity as well. I think he was like doing adverts.

He was kind of up there with Frank Bruno. Kevin Keegan, you know, as a sporting legend, a sporting hero. And he still is a sporting hero.

I think he's definitely a sporting legend because of, you know, some of the outside of the ring stuff he did. He I think he brought people together. But at the time he was a huge star.

But then he did come back. What did he do? He came back. Oh, wow.

I didn't realise he had so many fights afterwards. Because I remember he came back and he looked huge. Now, the thing is, when he was in the fight in Las Vegas.

I mean, he was probably just losing body weight as it went along. He looked like he was just shrinking. And it was tiny to start with, let's face it, featherweight.

We'll say about nine stone, eight stone, half, eight and a half stone. I mean, it's physically half my size or half my weight anyway. And so and he was shrinking as he was going along.

I don't mean physically shrinking. I mean, he didn't fall through a crack in the canvas. Wasn't that bad.

But he had. He wasn't even out of it for that long. About 10, was it June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April.

So he was out of the ring for 10 months and then he fought. And he won three fights in a row by knockout. I'm pretty sure he went up a weight now.

It doesn't say here if he did. But he. Oh, he lost basically to Jim McDonnell, who then went on to win the world title.

The WBC and WBA super featherweight. So, yeah, he went up to super featherweight, which I remember thinking how muscly he looked. What's his name? McGregor, it looks.

Compared to how we did on the night when he lost, he just looked so maybe the camera was just closer, but he looked really muscular. It looked big. And I was like, wow, I'm flexing my muscles and say that.

OK, I'm flexing one muscle, the one I've got left. So he lost to Jim McDonnell, who, yeah, I remember that. I knew it had a comeback fight.

I just didn't realize it had three. Well, four, actually, one, two, four. And all ended with a knockout.

But unfortunately, the last one was him being knocked out in 89. But then there was a big gap between his the fight before that one. So he fought 1st of December 88.

No, there wasn't. I really need to work out my mathematics. The next one was five months later.

So that wasn't a big. Oh, my goodness. I surprised myself at how.

Unmathematical I am. When did he turn professional? Nineteen eighty one. But he had lost already.

He lost in his third fight around eight. So. This is weird.

He lost to Peter Eubank in Brighton. Now, is Peter Eubank related to Chris Eubank? Because Chris Eubank lives in Brighton. Chris Eubank, Peter, I'm going to see if there's a connection there.

So, Peter is Peter. Is Peter related to Chris Eubank? Eubank, Peter, Peter and his twin sister, Simon. No way.

He's the old brother of former world champion Chris Eubank, Sr. Wow. So Peter and his twin brother, Simon, are older siblings to Chris Eubank, Sr. Peter was a professional super lightweight boxer who competed during the 1980s and early 90s, famously defeating Baron McGregor in 1981. Oh.

Unlike Chris, Sr. Peter and Simon kept the S at the end of their last name, Eubanks. That's not what he's got on a record. He's just got Eubank.

Wow. Oh, he fought him twice. Oh, he fought him again.

So he beat Baron McGregor on the 3rd of August 1981. And then he fought him again on the 8th of December. He had six fights in 1981.

That's what's missing. Okay. In not general boxers, because if you're unknown and you just, you know, you work your way up, you can do six fights in a year.

You can do 10 sometimes. Mike Tyson did, I think, 12 fights in one year. I think Nigel Benn used to do a fight every two weeks or every three weeks during the beginning of his career.

But now, especially when someone's like a Moses Atama was right from the beginning, touted as being the future of boxing before his very first fight. So before he'd even had, you know, a round of professional boxing. And he didn't get the rounds.

He didn't, didn't, well, he didn't get many rounds. But he didn't get many, many fights, really. I mean, he's had four, I think this is his 14th fight.

So Moses, I wonder what will come up. Moses Atama will come up at the top. Yeah, I guess that would be normal at the moment.

Although he's not the most famous Moses, is he? Let's face it. Moses Atuma Atama. His first heavyweight.

So I've watched, I've seen all of his fights. I was quite excited. I mean, I remember seeing him interviewed.

And like before he even had his first fight. And there's all these professionals and managers were basically interviewing him, not interviewing, trying to groom him to sort of take so that he'd go with them. Because I guess he was seen as a moneymaking machine.

A moneymaker machine. So he started in 2023. So he started off good like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven fights in 2023.

Which is good. 2024 one, two, three, four, four fights. Not so good when you think it's his second, only his second year.

And then 2025, two fights. Now, I'm not sure if he had like an injury or something. So I'm not, I'm not judging.

I'm just, I look at some of the records of other people. And how many fights they have. Because there seem to be some, I know it's his 15th fight yesterday.

So there's this whole thing about I'll become a world champion early and only if haven't had 14 fights previous and only haven't had 21 rounds or something. But actually, there's a lot to be said for having had 30 or 40 fights. Maybe not 40, but to have had a nice number.

Because just it's really weird without, if you haven't seen it, you might just think, oh, hype job. He was so hyped up and then he got beat. And that could be the attitude.

It maybe is the attitude of a lot of people. But I kind of see a little bit different. I really laugh when I'm watching a boxing fight like, you know, a big, a big event.

Moses was making me laugh at how quick he was. I wasn't sitting here rolling around, but it was just like, wow, so fast. Never seen anything like it in a heavyweight division.

It was, I suppose, Shakur Stevenson kind of speed or Mayweather kind of speed. Phenomenal. It's so fast.

But what he didn't take account and this was talked about before the fight is Chin. Hergovich has, wow, got one hell of a chin. And also people going about Mike Tyson, oh, Mike Tyson knocked everyone out.

No, he didn't. He knocked a lot of people out, but he didn't knock everyone out. I mean, if you go to his record, I remember without having to look it up.

But he went the distance at least I think twice before he fought for the world title. And once he fought for the world title, he won it and he had to go to every, he fought for the two other versions of the world title at the time. And he had to go the distance with Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker.

Couldn't knock them out. And this is, you know, class is one of the most feared heavyweights ever. He couldn't knock everybody out.

So there's no reason why most of the time should be expected to knock everyone out. Because no, no heavyweight ever does or hardly any boxers ever do that. In fact, has there ever been, has there ever been, ever been a world champion boxer retired, okay, retired, undefeated, having knocked every opponent out.

Now I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this. I had a little bit of a doubt there with Rocky Marciano. But I'm pretty sure he didn't knock everyone out.

Oh, there is one person Edwin Valero. Edwin Valero. Wow.

That was really sad. He basically, he was only young. Let me have a look.

I could tell you about him. Okay, Rocky Marciano did stop every opponent he ever faced for the world heavyweight title. But he didn't, he was taking a distance in his previous fights.

A couple. So this Edwin Valero, a motorbike accident, I think he, he basically passed away at 28. He was, oh no, okay, I won't go into details.

But yeah, I won't. Yeah, no. But anyway, he, he passed away very early at early age.

He basically, where was he from? He was born in Merida, Venezuela. And he knocked out, he had, this is the only world champion ever to knock out every single opponent or, you know, for it to be stopped. Or for the other opponent, the opponent to retire like no more, no mass, or for it to be stopped by the referee or towel thrown in or whatever.

He had 27 fights, all by knockout. And in his 20th fight, he won the WBA super featherweight title. He defended it 1, 2, 3, 4 times.

Then he went up to lightweight and won that and defended that twice. So he had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 world title fights. So he was the only one in history.

So he was born in 81. So he, yeah, 2010, he left. So 81, 2006.

So he would have been 24 when he fought, when he won his first world title. So for four years, he was a world champion. Two different weights.

And I've seen footage of him and he's, he was phenomenal. Indestructible, almost, maybe because of the ending, he's not given the, the props, possibly. I won't go, I mean, you can, you can research it if you want.

But I never know what the truth is about these, these kind of things. But if it wasn't for that, let's say if he'd have retired, just retired. At 28, he would have been probably classed as one of the greatest boxers of all time.

Because with a record like that, no one else has done it. In the history of boxing, of world champions, he's the only one. Every single fight, a knockout.

Not just the world title fights, but every single one. And they're phenomenal. See, I asked, I knew, I kind of, in my brain, I kind of had a little niggle, little itch, little niggle, little niggle wiggle, that there was one person, but I couldn't quite, I kept having this image of someone on a motorbike.

Did he ride a motorbike? Because there was another fighter that's, in fact, there is a fighter that's, he's a heavyweight fighter. I think he was heavyweight. And he knocked out all of his opponents.

But he didn't get to fight for a world title because he injured his back. Right. Let me see if I can find out that.

Which heavyweight, and he was boxer. Had to retire due to injury. Injured back.

He retired undefeated, this bloke. No, it's not David Haye. That's not Rocky Marciano.

No. Oh, right. Which heavyweight boxer had to retire due to injured back? Okay, if I put undefeated, which undefeated? Which undefeated? Maybe he wasn't heavyweight.

No, Rocky Marciano is not the one. It's struggling with this. Which undefeated heavyweight boxer had to retire due to back injury? I'll tell you what I'm going to do.

I'm going to go on to ChatGPT. Ask that. I might get more sense.

Yeah, here we go. He was a middleweight, not a heavyweight. Damn it.

Pirog, Dmitry Pirog. He retired, so he didn't have, he was undefeated. Oh, he was the world champion, and it was due to fight Gennady Golovkin, but back injury forced him out.

I'm sure there was a heavyweight, heavyweight, retired due to injury. I think there was. But he wasn't heavyweight.

He wasn't a world title. He didn't hold a world title. My E is still playing up.

In fact, the whole keyboard is starting to play up a little bit now on my laptop. And I suppose I could try and take the keyboard up. Oh, look at this.

There is a baby Joe Messi. Oh, okay. Right, baby Joe Messi.

It's a very strong possibility for the boxer you're remembering. He was a highly rated American heavyweight. He finished 36 and 0. So 36 wins, no losses, 29 KOs, never won a world title, heavyweight title.

He definitely suffered back trouble in his career. A 2007 back injury forced him out of a skydiving competition. I think it might be the Dimitri Pirog.

Yeah, that makes sense. I don't know why I was thinking heavyweight. So I'll tell you something that, okay, just I find a little bit, a little bit frustrating.

Nassim Hamid, Prince Nassim Hamid is one of my favorite all-time boxers. And, you know, I was in his era. You know, I remember watching him with, you know, with his first few fights and the press kind of getting annoyed because he was doing all these weird things in the ring and making fun of his opponents and doing somersaults.

And then he kind of, he gained the love because he went on and won world titles and showed that he really was amazing. It wasn't like a gimmick or anything. And he eventually lost.

And this is the weird thing. So like if you go, I've got so much to say about him. Prince Nassim.

Prince is a weird, isn't it? Prince, if I just put PRI, Prince Nassim comes up. It's almost like Google is just expecting that I'm going to start looking at other boxes. It's weird.

So he was 21 when he won his world title for the first, his first world title. And wow, yeah, he had a lot of world title fights. He lost to Marco Antonio in 2001.

And he did come back for one fight. But then it's like he, it's like he didn't, he almost wasn't even there. He just, he looked like he was bored.

He won the fight, but he looked like he was bored. And then we never saw him again in the ring. The thing is.

Marco Antonio Barrera was not a nobody. And he didn't get the credit for that. You know, Manny, what's his name? Who are we talking about? Prince Nassim finished now hassling me.

What do you want, baby? He's just staring at me. And your tail's wiggling, wiggling. Why is your tail, what's your tail? What, what, what, what? Why is your tail going like that? You want to go out, don't you? Is that what you want? Is that what you want? He might have heard one of his friends out the back or out the front.

He seems to hear his doggy friends when they're like miles away. Don't you? Unless I said something that got him excited. Anyway.

Don't hassle me, please. So Barrera, Antonio Marcos, Marco and Antonio Barrera. He.

One. I'm looking back at what we did. He won.

In 1995, the WBO Superbantamweight title. He retained that one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight times. And he lost it to Junior Jones.

They had two fights. And the first fight he got disqualified because his cornerman entered the ring too early. Wow.

And then he won the vacant WBO Superbantamweight title against Richie Winton in 98. Retained that one, two times. Then he defended against a bloke called Cesar Najero, but was ruled a no contest after Najero's fight record could not be verified.

Then he fought Eric Morales, one of the greats. Junior Jones, I think, is one of the greats at the time. So Eric Morales, one of the greats, definitely.

He lost his title, Superbantamweight title. Then he retained it again against Luis Frutas in June 17, 2000. Retained.

Oh, wait a minute. He went up a weight, a loss. So he still had his world title.

He lost. What? Lost WBO Superbantamweight title. Okay, I'm confused there.

But anyway, he retained. So he went up and lost. And then he continued to retain his world title.

One, two, three. And then he won. He fought Nassim Hamid.

He won the IBO featherweight title, which was meaningless at the time. So I don't know, did Nassim Hamid just give away all his proper titles? The IBO title is still meaningless even now. 30 years later, it's got no meaning.

Maybe not 30 years later, 25 years later. So he lost and he won. He beat Nassim Hamid to win the IBO.

And then he went on and he fought Eric Morales and won the WBC vacant ring featherweight title. So he dropped the IBO title as soon as he could because it didn't mean anything. But the fact is he beat Nassim Hamid who was supposed to be the top of the list.

But he was the top of the list pretty much. Then he fought. He retained his title one, two times including Kevin Kelly who Nassim Hamid fought.

Then he lost to Manny Pacquiao. Then he won the WBC super featherweight title again. Retained it.

Then he won the IBF super featherweight title added to his collection. Against Robbie Peden, 2005. Retained that, retained that.

Then he lost to Jean-Juan Manuel Marquez. And then he fought Manny Pacquiao again. For the international super featherweight.

So that wasn't for a world title but he lost that one. But this is at the end of his career at this point. That was like 2007.

And then he lost to Amir Khan. It was one of Amir Khan's first professional fights. And Amir Khan beat him up.

He said this is for, this is revenge for Prince Nassim. Who was, I think it was his idol. It was lots of people's boxers idols.

And then he went on, he went on winning. Then he lost, he retired in 2011. 67 wins out of 75 fights.

44 knockouts. 21 by decision. Two by disqualification.

And five losses by decision. One by knockout. One by disqualification.

I mean I don't know if you keep track of how many world titles he won. So for Prince Nassim to lose to him on points. Was absolutely no disgrace.

Considering he had already been a world champion. Before in, well how many, well I can't even keep track. So many different world titles he had.

It's quite ridiculous actually. That's a lot isn't it? And wow. So basically.

Oh he hadn't, he fought Ricky Hatton. I forgot his name. I forgot about that.

He fought Ricky, I think it was in a kind of like 2022. It was like a charity thing or something. But that's just amazing.

So I'm a million percent sure. If Prince Nassim. Had wanted a rematch.

He could have got a rematch. Even if it wasn't in the contract. Because of the Olympics.

It was a, I mean. Antonio Pereira, Marco Antonio Pereira only had. Wait a minute.

He had three. He had three pay-per-view bouts. One was with Prince Nassim Hamid.

2001 and that was his very first. And then he had two with. One was with Pereira number two.

And the other one was Ponce de Dillon. So 2021. Wow.

I believe Nassim Hamid, Prince Nassim would have beaten. Pereira the second time. But the thing that it gets to me.

How I can't live and stay so long. I feel he's almost cuddling up to me. He's on the armrest of the settee on the left-hand side.

Now he's licking the seat for some reason. But Prince Nassim had a certain style. So when he got hit.

He he used to jump backwards so that he didn't take the force of the punch. It looks spectacular. And I thought everyone knew what was going on.

But if you if you rewatch it back. In if you if you watch it in a fight where he won. You can see what he's doing.

If you watch it in the fight where he lost. It looks like he's being beaten up. And he wasn't.

He was getting beaten. There's no doubt about that. He was definitely he got beat that night.

It wasn't. I think anyone would like thought that it was a wrong decision. It wasn't like one way.

But I think part of the reason he lost is because. It looked like he was. Because he was moving.

That his style of moving around. Probably looked like Barrera was doing better than what he was. But it was such a different.

It was a style thing. Such a different style. I'm pretty sure if they'd gone in again.

Prince in the scene would have just knocked him out. Or he wouldn't have been able to touch him. He would have just got out of the way.

And just pat pat pat pat all the way through. He would have called him Pat for some reason. Could be Patricia.

Could be Patrick. You know it's a universal name. But then you see if you see him like when he got beat.

It looked and there's so many pictures of him. You know where he got to feed and they show a picture of him. Like a still of him jumping back.

So it looks like the force of the punch is knocking them all the way back. Which it wasn't. That was his style.

He was at a very kind of Herald Grail. Herald Graham. I think Herald Graham was actually in his gym.

But he had that kind of style. And he's a very famous British boxer. Who used to be well basically it was very hard to hit.

In fact Chris Eubank was asked why didn't you ever fight Herald Graham. And he said why would I want to get in a room with someone that I can't hit. So the only way anyone could win against Herald Graham was by knocking him out.

So you'd be punching you just had to keep punching until eventually you got him. And that's the only way he got beat. So Herald Graham Herald Graham Herald Graham yeah Herald Graham.

Wow he's 66. So he had loads of fights. He did win.

He lost the European title. So he won all the main titles like British, Commonwealth, European whatever. And then he lost the European title to Sambu Kalambai.

Who went on to I think win the world title about three times. And then he lost to Mike McCullum for the vacant WBA middleweight title. A split decision.

Again one of the greats. Mike McCullum I think he also won the title about three times. Then this was his biggest loss.

Probably not to him. Well probably to him actually because of the way it worked out. So he'd fought for the world title.

He didn't get it. He hadn't that was 89. He got another chance in 1990.

But this time he was going against a knockout artist Julian Jackson. I don't think maybe a lot of people and it was in Spain as well. So it would have been UK ish time.

Maybe a couple of hours difference. I don't think people a lot of people in this country probably would have known who Julian Jackson was. I did because well I just I'm not saying I'm the only one that did and oh I'm great because I know who the hell who the boxers are.

But well I am a little bit. But it's he was I was finding quite interesting. He's very tall but he's just such a hard hitter.

Anyway. Harold Graham was beating him so easily hitting him whenever he wanted. Very much like Moses was last night for the first seven rounds six rounds or whatever.

And Julian Jackson couldn't lay a glove on him. Until he did and he sparked him out bang. It was like he almost walked on to the punch and it was a massive punch and that was it.

And then I remember that I remember watching that and like I was so because I was a big what's his name fan Harold Graham fan because in those days we're talking. Yeah 80s late 80s. He.

Yeah I just remember Rod Douglas. Yeah that was a bad one. Unfortunately.

Okay. It doesn't talk about it here it's fine I won't mention it then. But those were the days when we used to have boxing on a Saturday night on TV.

I'm not sure I think it was BBC. But we also used to have boxing on during the 90s on ITV as well. So that doesn't really happen so much now although BBC have I think BBC 2 have started to have a bit of boxing on Channel 5 sometimes have the occasional fight.

But it used to be a big fight used to be the big Saturday night fight. And in the 90s Chris Eubank Nigel Benn. Trying to think whoever whoever was big at that time would have the big fights on you know in the in the UK.

I mean if it was at Wembley or wherever they'd have the big fights on on a Saturday night. And it used to be good we used to be better than good used to be brilliant used to love it. And then I think ITV again it might be in BBC.

I think it was ITV used to show the big American fights live early hours in the morning. So for example what's his name Riddick Bowe remember Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield when they were world champions used to be on a Saturday night. Well Saturday Sunday early morning and I'd get home from the comedy club.

Sometimes I'd fall asleep waiting. Sometimes I'd get home in time just as it just started. And other times there'd be other fights going on beforehand.

And the big build up you know all the national anthem nonsense. I don't know why they have to do all that stuff just get in the ring and have the fight you know. I mean sometimes the build up like the ring walk and all that stuff takes like half an hour.

And there's one I don't know I can't remember which fight it was. Those people it was a band playing like live while the the fighters were waiting in the ring. I mean what the heck's that about just but it's entertainment.

Yeah but have that at the beginning of the show or have it just like come on. This just get I mean we're here because we want to watch the fight. We're not here because we want to for any other reason.

I imagine you know if you if you're watching anyone that was watching last night. The only thing they wanted to see once the previous fight finished was Moses Atalma and Filip Herbikovic get into the ring and start. Didn't all of all the fluff and the buff and the rough and the chitty chat or whatever it's just for like an hour or half an hour whatever.

So it's like come on just just can we just have the fight please. That's why Dubai was so good when they had their and I've never never experienced it before. They had I think it was like two years ago maybe three years ago.

Not yet three years ago it's a bit like coming up to December be three years ago. And Dubai had a had a night where it's mainly heavyweights. And the show started at four in the afternoon finished about 11 at night.

And it was full on they had so many fights that it was hardly any weight between the fights. And it was hard going I'll be honest it was very tiring. And I think it ended with I think Tyson Fury fighting maybe it was Tyson Fury against Usyk maybe I can't remember but I know that so many heavyweights were fighting each other.

It was amazing I think Wilder was fighting the Big Bang Zhang was fighting. Hergovich was fighting. I'm not sure Fantany Joshua was fighting as well.

And you also had I think Dave Allen was fighting. And I think Moses might have even been on there. I think that might be one of these fights early fights.

And Dubois as well. Maybe maybe even Fabio so there's so many heavyweights on there that were I would class as anyone that likes boxing these are well-known names in the heavyweight division. Which brings me to my next question.

Why didn't why didn't Dubois not Dubois below me why didn't Atalma fight any of those big names that weren't at the top weren't quite as high up as Hergovich. You know I mean yeah he fought Dillian White that didn't quite wasn't quite what it was supposed to be. Fair enough but it's a really I mean Dillian White was a big name in heavyweight boxing for a long time.

But then he fought like that for me after that he's never going to fight well let's say never but he can't fight Fabio because they're in the same gym together. They train together so it's not that it can't ever happen but it wouldn't happen at this time. But why couldn't he fight Dave Allen or Chisora or any of the other up-and-coming fighters that are also really good and maybe so well they're not on his level but it'd still be a test.

None of those people are going to just going to go down easily. You know they're not they're going to give him a good fight and that's what he needed. He needed even someone like if he'd have gone in with um not now but you know at the time a couple of years ago.

If he'd have gone in with someone like Joe Joyce I mean Joe Joyce may have won actually because the engine Joe Joyce has got he can go 12 rounds and he's he can take punches what he used to be able to take punches all night long and then the last couple of rounds his opponent would be so too exhausted to do anything so he might have got stopped against Joe Joyce two or three years ago but in fact probably he would have done potentially.

But even like now if not right now because Joe Joyce perhaps isn't in the best space but maybe like you know six months ago a year ago if he'd have fought Joe Joyce very likely he would have got the distance out of it or if he'd have fought as I said like um there's so many kind of uh British fighters that are good like Fabio did that he went down that route he fought loads of the good fighters um like a bronze olympic medalist what's his name and he fought David

Adelaide so David Adelaide was the fight that was the fight that Philip Hercovitch had before this one I think you have to fight him before you can get a world title shot because he hits hard and he's he's durable yeah he can get beaten but it's like he didn't Moses didn't fight someone like him and I'd say Adelaide's better than anyone that Moses fought not prime Dillian White I'm talking or prime even uh what's his name that he fought before Hercovitch the you know the version that fought Tyson Fury and

uh Anthony Joshua did he fight Tyson Fury no he fought I think he fought Dillian White yeah he fought Dillian White and Anthony Joshua and went the distance with both of them so you know just a Dave Allen put him in with Dave Allen then put maybe that's what he needs to do so what I would say because there's no point for me there's no point putting Moses Atalma in with someone that no one's heard of even if they're brilliant in this country because let's face it he's not going to

be probably the superstar that people hoped with America seeing it because they're I can't imagine after seeing him get beat they're gonna maybe they won't see how good he is even though it seems obvious how good he is but they might not see that might just see the end result I'm not sure but what I'd like to see now is once he's recovered because he physically it took everything out of him once he's physically recovered and got himself you know back maybe give himself maybe a year off if he if

he needs it and then come back and fight people that are maybe at the British level because even the British level is at a higher level than some of the fighters that he's fought on his record so go through those ones win the British record bring win the British title win the Commonwealth title win the European title go down that route because he is so good and once he's gone a distance a couple of times he will be he's the I really do believe he's still the future of the heavyweight

division because I honestly I've never seen anything like that you know when I was watching him I was laughing at how quick he was at the beginning but basically what Herkovich did was what Muhammad Ali did with George Foreman the difference well yeah there wasn't that much difference and he took everything that Moses had to give him and he took it on the chin he didn't even seem to be trying to defend himself at times his hands were down he's a lot taller than Moses but he held his hands down

while he was being hit and it's almost like he was just pacing himself until Moses gassed out because in his in his last fight Moses looked knackered in the very at the end of the very first round and his rings was these rings is the corner person was saying you know pace yourself don't hurry it's not it's no hurry just take your time so that that would be what I hope that he does but don't don't do too much two fights a year do like five or six fights a year

I personally think that Moses Atalma could do 12 rounds once his if he gets his cardio up I'm not judging anyone's cardio because mine's probably the worst of all but if he can get his if he can get used to doing 12 rounds do half as much work during the round for 12 rounds he'll win the world title he'll keep the world title for a long time if he still keeps the movement of avoiding getting hit as well and also I don't think many many heavyweight boxers are going to have

the chin that Herkovich has got I mean it's one a heck of a chin seriously well just the only time I've ever seen a chin like that probably twice before is Joe Joyce although that seems he used to be indestructible he seemed he seemed indestructible and then kind of he got knocked out by Big Bang Zang twice and that seemed to be something changed it might just be age because he's nearly 40 and stuff and we you know we change as we get older but any other person would be George

Foreman no one could knock George Foreman out apart from Ali Ali was the only person that could do it and he came back 10 years after he retired and he won the world title again and he fought all these young people in their early 20s when he was in his 40s and he did get bashed up a few times but he never got knocked out no one what a chin so Herkovich and the thing is I don't think it's fair to say that any boxer today hits any harder than any

boxer of the 90s or anywhere else because there's heavy heavy they're all heavy hitters every heavyweight boxer hits hard and back then we had people like Tommy Morrison that had a left hook that was phenomenal uh George Foreman fought I fought Vanda Holyfield he fought so many of the best heavyweights of the time so yeah I don't know how I I personally don't believe it will go down as a knockout it was a stoppage but it'll go down as a knockout won't it on uh Moses's uh recorders he got knocked

out he he could have pushed him over I'm not so I'm not saying anyone could have done because you need to be a bigger lump to push over someone like him but he was so exhausted he's struggling to stand up and even as he was leaning on the ropes I thought he was going to fall over the ropes at one point and I do believe that Herkovich leant on him but held him out kept him from falling over probably wouldn't admit it but I think he did he didn't he kind

of yeah it seemed to kind of like sort of pull him back into the ring but even then when he was leaning against the ropes hardly able to stand he threw a punch that mess really fast punch that hit Herkovich and you know what that fight reminded me of how Atama looked at the end of that fight exactly the way that Fabio looked at the end of his last fight on his completely exhausted absolutely exhausted and wasn't just like he was ready to just but he Fabio I'm not sure Fabio

can go down I don't know if he's possible to put him down but he's just you know I would say out of the two Fabio out of probably every heavyweight Fabio is probably the toughest just it's not that he's got the best chin although he's got an amazing it's just he don't there's no quit in him there's no quit um I just had a lot of shouting downstairs don't know what that was but anyway it was a very unusual evening of boxing it was so on that note I'm gonna go

so thank you for listening I've got my kitchen being done next week or this week coming so that'll be interesting maybe and I've got the diabetic nurse as well so I'll let you know what happens there so thanks for listening and remember to be kind to yourself because you do deserve to be happy and be gentle with yourself you deserve to feel safe lots of love bye